EP 1 | GIVING YOUR BRAIN SOME TLC WITH DR. SANJAY GUPTA AND KEVIN HINES
Episode Summary
This episode’s guest is a neurosurgeon, CNN chief medical correspondent, and dear friend Dr. Sanjay Gupta.
He is with us in the Hinesights Podcast to chat about his experience through life, his job, and what makes him happy. Dr. Gupta shares his thoughts regarding COVID and his new book: World War C: Lessons from the COVID-19 pandemic and How to Prepare for the Next One. He shares how he has been re-reading books during the lockdown, his perfect meal plan, and the dark moments in his life. Dr. Gupta also reflects on how he got out of those dense periods and how getting help was essential in this process.
Don’t miss this episode in which you will get advice from Dr. Sanjay’s life!
About our Guest - Sanjay Gupta
Dr. Sanjay Gupta is an American neurosurgeon, son of Indian and Pakistani parents. He was best known for his captivating reports on health and medical topics and his appearances on multiple CNN television shows, including American Morning and House Call with Dr. Sanjay Gupta, which he hosted.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta is the multiple Emmy® award-winning chief medical correspondent for CNN and host of the CNN podcast Chasing Life. Gupta, a practicing neurosurgeon, plays an integral role in CNN’s reporting on health and medical news for all of CNN’s shows domestically and internationally and regularly contributes to CNN.com. In addition to his work for CNN, Gupta is an associate professor of neurosurgery at Emory University Hospital and associate chief of neurosurgery at Grady Memorial Hospital in Atlanta. He serves as a diplomate of the American Board of Neurosurgery. And in 2019, Gupta was elected to the National Academy of Medicine, considered one of the highest honors in the medical field. Gupta received his undergraduate degree from the University of Michigan and a Doctorate of Medicine degree from the University of Michigan Medical School.
Key Take-Aways
Why, as human beings, we need to realize we have the capacity for joy and happiness in our lives.
There are still many things we don’t know about COVID-19.
Many lives would have been saved if people started using a mask correctly when the pandemic started.
Eating non-processed food has different health benefits, among them is a decrease in heart disease, diabetes, and dementia.
Sometimes you need help to get out of the dark moments of life.
Mental health has always had a stigma, that is changing nowadays.
Resources
Connect with Dr. Sanjay Gupta on Linkedin.
Follow Dr. Sanjay’s Facebook page.
Find Dr. Sanjay’s new book “World War C” here.
Watch the documentary “One Nation Under Stress” here.
Remember to visit the Crisis Now website for more information.
Hinesight Podcast_Sanjay Gupta: Audio automatically transcribed by Sonix
Hinesight Podcast_Sanjay Gupta: this mp3 audio file was automatically transcribed by Sonix with the best speech-to-text algorithms. This transcript may contain errors.
Kevin Hines:
My name is Kevin Hines. I jumped off the Golden Gate Bridge. I believe that I had to die, but I lived. Today, I travel the world with my lovely wife, Margaret, sharing stories of people who have triumphed over incredible adversity. Now, we help people be here tomorrow. Welcome to the HINESIGHTS Podcast.
Kevin Hines:
RI International and Behavioral Health Link are providers of the crisis now model. Transforming crisis services for behavioral emergencies, RI International tends to the mental health crisis of the individuals in 10 states across the United States and internationally to provide support and care for people during the lowest point in their lives. Behavioral Health Link operates crisis call center services, dispatches GPS-enabled mobile crisis services to homes and community locations, and offers the country's most trusted crisis system software care traffic control. The time to transform crisis care services is now. Find out more at CrisisNow.com.
Kevin Hines:
My guest today on the HINESIGHTS podcast is my dear friend, the amazing Dr. Sanjay Gupta. Sanjay is an American neurosurgeon, medical reporter, and journalist. He serves as associate chief of neurosurgery at Grady Memorial Hospital in Atlanta, Georgia, associate professor of neurosurgery at the Emory University School of Medicine, and chief medical correspondent for CNN. He is an avid world traveler, a kind and compassionate soul, please welcome Dr. Sanjay Gupta. Sanjay, glad you're here with us today on the Hinesight's Podcast. My first question for you is what or who do you treasure most in life?
Dr. Sanjay Gupta:
That's a great question. I think what I treasure the most in life, and I've never been asked this before. By the way, I love HINESIGHTS, that is a great name for your podcast. So.
Kevin Hines:
Thank you!
Dr. Sanjay Gupta:
And congratulations on that. You're always doing amazing work getting the message out there. I think what I would say, Kevin, and this is something I think you appreciate. What I value the most in life is the capacity that I continue to have for joy. I'm very capable of being happy and maybe that sounds like an obvious thing, but as I've gotten older in life now, my early 50s, I realized it's not true for everybody and I really cherish it.
Kevin Hines:
You know, I think that's so very true. I see so many people that are so disheartened with their life, their jobs, their well-being, and their unhappy people. And it's great that you found that. That's amazing.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta:
Yeah. I'm not always happy. I want to be clear on that.
Kevin Hines:
Yeah, yeah.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta:
But I know, I've recognized I have the capacity for it, and I think that that's really important.
Kevin Hines:
Yeah, recognizing you have the capacity, that's great.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta:
Yes. Yes.
Kevin Hines:
My next question for you is, this one I know people have asked you this before, but I'll ask anyway, is why did you become a neurosurgeon?
Dr. Sanjay Gupta:
It was a later in life decision for me, but I think what really, really got my interest in the brain was, coming from a family of non-doctors, nobody in my family was a doctor. The first time I spent any time in a hospital was when my grandfather, my mom's father, got sick. He had a stroke and I was 12 or 13 years old at the time and spent a lot of time with him and got to know hospitals and got to know his doctors, and I think it was the first time I realized that could be a real profession, you know, being a doctor and especially one that focused on the brain. So that was really it. But I made the final decision when I was in medical school, I went to medical school, Kevin, I don't know if I've told you this thinking I wanted to be a pediatrician. That was my original sort of goal because I love children. But the brain has just always fascinated me.
Kevin Hines:
Pivoted and it's paved the way for your life since it's amazing.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta:
Yeah!
Kevin Hines:
Okay, fantastic. So please tell us about your latest book release. I think five days ago World War C.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta:
Yeah, so October 5th is the release of World War C. And you know, I spent the last two years really immersed in this pandemic. I mean, I think if you're a reporter at an international news network during a pandemic, it's your whole life. And I realize there's so much of what I learned that you never really get across on television. You can't, even in documentaries, it's tough to get across, and a book was really the best way to convey some of these things that I think I've learned. But I think what really struck me was an emerging theme that I heard from many scientists, which was that we could essentially become pandemic-proof in the United States and really the world. We're going to continuously live with these new pathogens now. When we talk about population expansion, we often think of that as in terms of human beings, understandably. But it also means we increasingly encroach the other species that we share the planet with, such as pathogens. So that's going to keep happening this dance between us and them. But the idea that it has to completely disrupt our lives, as this pandemic has, that's not preordained. And so that's what this book is about. If it is possible to become pandemic-proof, then how do we do it at every level, societal level, hospitals, but also individuals? What is the obligation of individuals to make us as prepared as possible for these, for these pathogens?
Kevin Hines:
Wow. Amazing. Well, I'll be glad to get a copy of that book.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta:
I will send it to you for sure.
Kevin Hines:
Oh, thank you very much. You know, for the longest time, you've clearly been an avid researcher, and I know you do a great deal of due diligence for any and all of your work. There's so much about COVID that we still don't know, what, if any, challenges did you have or find while writing the book?
Dr. Sanjay Gupta:
Yeah, I mean, I think that's a great question. The hardest part was figuring out where to end the book because I don't want to give people the impression that you know, it's over and sometimes you write a retrospective. And I kept thinking, Do we end it when the vaccines roll out? Do we end it when we get to a certain level of immunity, to a certain level of cases, lowering the cases? So I think that was the hardest part. But I think what's still is an unsolved sort of puzzle with this whole COVID thing, and I speak a lot about this in the book because it is related to the brain, is just the impact of a virus-like this on our bodies and our brains and how long it lasts. We typically think you get a coronavirus infection like a cold, a lot of colds are caused by coronaviruses. I don't think a week after you have a cold, you think, oh, I've just been changed somehow by that cold, I'm different, I'm napping all the time, I can't quite get my stride, I'm not exercising as well as I used to, I can't think as clearly, I lost my smell, my toes are getting clots in them, young people who have clots and strokes as a result. Why would a respiratory virus cause all of that? It's still unusual, and I think a lot of people, in the beginning, started saying, was this similar to HIV in terms of how it lingers in the body? Is it similar to Lyme disease in terms of how long the symptoms might last? So I think the hardest part is there's still a lot about this virus we don't know. It's just a tiny strand of genetic material, but it does all these things in the body that we're still figuring out.
Kevin Hines:
Wow. What scares or ... are concerned you most about COVID?
Dr. Sanjay Gupta:
I think these long-hauler symptoms are really concerning. They're a metaphor for a greater thing that is happening in the body. I think that was one of the things that scientifically really was concerning. I think the fact that it's spread even among people who weren't sick, that made it essentially an invisible disease. I mean, people had no idea that they were still transmitting the virus. I will say, Kevin, I mean, and we talked about this last time we got together, but people's behavior has been at times alarming. I mean, I remember there was a series of segments where we were saying a lot of people were saying, you know, if you look at the data, we could potentially save 40,000 lives if people wore masks and this was early days of the pandemic. Just wear a mask. And potentially you could be part of a movement that saves 40,000 thousand lives, just put on two ear loops when you walk out of the house and you could do something that's really remarkable, and about half the country would say "no, thanks. Ain't going to do it. I'll pass." I think that was a bit alarming as well.
Kevin Hines:
Absolutely. I completely agree. All right. We're going to play a little word association, okay?
Dr. Sanjay Gupta:
Okay!
Kevin Hines:
Here we go, running or walking?
Dr. Sanjay Gupta:
I'm a runner, but I really recognize the value of walking and I cheated on that one. Sorry!
Kevin Hines:
No, you totally do.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta:
Running good for the heart. Running good for the heart. Walking good for the brain.
Kevin Hines:
All right, or dancing.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta:
All right.
Kevin Hines:
Sleeping five hours or eight to nine hours a night?
Dr. Sanjay Gupta:
Eight to nine!
Kevin Hines:
Yep, napping or meditating?
Dr. Sanjay Gupta:
Meditating!
Kevin Hines:
Okay. Coffee or tea?
Dr. Sanjay Gupta:
Coffee.
Kevin Hines:
Oh, there it is.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta:
I got mine right here.
Kevin Hines:
What is one thing, Sanjay, that people might not or don't know about you?
Dr. Sanjay Gupta:
I mean, there's the absurd things, right? Like, I'm an accordion player. I love playing the accordion.
Kevin Hines:
Accordion player!
Dr. Sanjay Gupta:
Yeah. Well, you know, I'm Indian and my parents, you know, they immigrated to this country. And when they immigrated, they were watching the Bollywood movies as kids themselves, and the accordion was the instrument, because all those Bollywood movies, I think some people know, but a lot of people don't know that I'm a dad of three teenage girls, and it's very defining. I mean, people, I'm a doctor. But people often ask, how do you think of yourself? And I definitely think of myself as a dad, primarily. And that's just that's been an evolution. I didn't even think I'd have kids at one point in my life, and I have three of them. So.
Kevin Hines:
Three teenage girls?
Dr. Sanjay Gupta:
Three teenage girls, yeah, I'm from a really small town, a very homogenous town in Michigan. The town I grew up in was fewer than 4,000 people. That is where I grew up. A lot of the colleagues that I work with are raised in cities, big cities, and I think that it's interesting. I live in a red state still, you know, Georgia and I still practice neurosurgery, which is my first professional love. Those are some things, I guess.
Kevin Hines:
Yeah, absolutely, beautiful. Who is one person living or dead that you love to break bread with?
Dr. Sanjay Gupta:
Hmm. You know, one thing that, I'll answer the question, it's a long list. I think William Styron, you know, the author, I've been rereading books a lot during this pandemic, Kevin, I've been busy. But one thing that I have found some comfort in is rereading some books, and I read Sophie's Choice, again, William Styron wrote that, and then I was so taken with it, because it's such a beautiful book that I read Confessions of Nat Turner, and I mainly was reading it for the story. But also like, could this guy do it again? It's like it was an artist, right? Could he? Could he replicate that art again? And it did. I didn't want to put it down, you know? So I really was always curious about what made him tick. You know, somebody I had the privilege of breaking bread with again, but I would absolutely do it over and over again if I could was Anthony Bourdain, you know, he was a colleague at CNN, and obviously, people know who he is. But I had a chance to have a meal with him once. And I'll just tell you quickly, very punctual guy. Very, very punctual. I like to be early is to be on time type of guy. And I got there about a minute late, by the way, I don't know if you noticed I was here two minutes early for your podcast because Bourdain taught me this. Seriously, he said, you got to respect people's time. And Bourdain took it a step further, which, you know, sometimes is jarring when I think about. But he would say to me, I feel like if somebody is late, that person will ultimately betray you in some way.
Kevin Hines:
Oh, wow.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta:
And yeah, it was. It was like, whoa, Tony. I mean, that's really I mean, that seems like you're really reading into this. And he's like, No, just that's my experience. And so but he was such an interesting guy. He lived an interesting life. He wasn't without his foibles, you know, and he wasn't without his insecurities. I think what was different about Tony was that he was just so candid about stuff, about himself and about others and himself again, it wasn't like he painted himself as some messiah. He was a drug addict. He had really hard times in his life. He, you know, people who can channel that as you have Kevin, I will say, channel some grief into something that's really helpful for people. I find that really, really inspiring. And Kevin, I would break bread with you too. I would love to just sit down and have a meal with you. No cameras, no microphones. Just, I mean, this is wonderful that you've invited me to do this, but by the very definition of observing something, it changes it, right? A little bit, Heisenberg's principle. I think it's called?
Kevin Hines:
Right.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta:
So, so Kevin, I'm putting you at the top of the list as well. But just us, just us. Unfettered, unadulterated, untainted, unexamined, unobserved.
Kevin Hines:
Well, we're going to do that very soon, that's a promise.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta:
I look forward to it.
Kevin Hines:
And it may, and may Anthony rest in peace for sure. I mean, he was a fascinating man and he died tragically and died by suicide, and we miss him terribly, certainly.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta:
Yeah.
Kevin Hines:
Okay, shifting gears here, okay, I'm gonna stay in the era of food, what is your ideal first meal of the day?
Dr. Sanjay Gupta:
I have my, I have lived by this moniker that you should eat breakfast like a king, lunch like a prince, and dinner like a pauper. So frontload your calories, frontload your calories. So I eat a big breakfast, I eat a big breakfast and I usually have, so this morning I wake up early, as you know, I think we talked about this. So I've. What is it? Nine o'clock now? I've already eaten breakfast. I worked out before that. So I had an egg this morning. I had a bowl of oatmeal and I had this sliced fruit that we've, you know, we keep a big bowl of fruit in the refrigerator. Sometimes I'll have some yogurt with that. I'm a believer in having a diverse microbiome, so it's not. People always ask what's the healthy food, like the superfood? It's really just a diversity of foods. Just that's the Indian and far eastern diet. It's not even like, hey, you have to have this particular spice, turmeric with a diversity of microbiome, just seven different colors of foods. It really makes a difference. Don't eat junk. I mean, that's obvious, right? Don't drink junk, that's obvious. But other than that, eat a diversity of foods. So oatmeal I had, some eggs and a lot of fruit. We're not the most diverse this morning. I'll have vegetables at lunch and other things, but I eat a big breakfast. I probably have the majority, I really do have the majority of my calories in the morning.
Kevin Hines:
Okay, awesome. All right, Sanjay, one of the things I focus on from my brain health is eating non-inflammatory foods.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta:
Yeah.
Kevin Hines:
You went to Bolivia and you witness the diet of those who have the healthiest hearts in the entire world. In America, we spend $1 billion daily on heart disease, while in Bolivia, in a remote part of the Amazon, they've discovered through movement, diet, and rest how to stay heart healthy in a way Americans have yet to consider. Tell me about the difference in diets between the Bolivians you found, who have healthy hearts in the world and the average American diet.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta:
This was one of the most, I think, transformative experiences for me because of what you're saying. They don't spend a dollar, penny on health care and they don't really have any heart disease. I mean, you know, 600,000 die of heart disease every year in the United States, so what they eat is they eat a totally non-processed diet. That's the biggest difference. They hunt, when they move to hunt they don't run they walk. They outlast their prey, they don't outrun their prey, which I found interesting just in terms of heart health. They sleep a lot. Eight to nine hours a night, they go, there's no devices to look at. They go to bed when it's dark, they wake up when the rooster's crow in the distance of the forest. And as far as their diet goes, they will eat meat. But it's meat that they've worked for. They will eat a lot of food from the ground. And you know, the way they explained it to me is that when you are living off the land, farmed food is like food in the bank. You may not count on fish or more meat from hunting, but you can count on your vegetables. They eat a lot of, they eat a lot of carbs. About 80 percent of their diet is carbs, but it's non-refined and non-processed carbs. They would do these cool things like they'll take a little coconut oil and they would actually grill sweet potato fries, quote-unquote in this coconut oil. But everything was off the land. It's hard to replicate totally in the United States, especially the equilibrium between activity and calorie intake. Like you get that right if you're harvesting your own food, but you can live like that. And I think the biggest thing I learned from them was not, you know, just staying away from the processing as much as possible. Again, it's not novel thinking, but when you see societies around the world that virtually have no heart disease and by the way, hardly any dementia, hardly any diabetes as well, and not spending a dollar on health care. We spent four trillion dollars on health care every year, and we're still not getting it right. You know, most people spend half their day thinking about food. What are they going to eat? How are they planning their next meal? Are they going to go out to eat or are they going to order DoorDash, whatever it might be? And they still get it wrong when you just are living in that way that the Chimane, this indigenous tribe that I lived with, in Bolivia, when you see how they eat, they eat from what's available to them, and it makes total sense. And by the way, Kevin, they're really happy. They also have the capacity for joy. They have the capacity for joy. Yeah.
Kevin Hines:
And I know you have that too in a big way. All right. Here's a question that I don't know how many people often ask you, but I'll ask you anyway. Have you yourself ever experienced depression, a dark place? If so, what did you do to get better?
Dr. Sanjay Gupta:
I've experienced a dark place. I think depression is a clinical term, and I want to be careful in how I use it.
Kevin Hines:
Sure.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta:
But yeah, I've been to dark places. I've been to places where I wasn't sure and I don't want to minimize it, but I don't want to make it hyperbolic either. But I've been, there's been times in my life when I did not see the value of me being a part of it like that is. Like, I feel like you have to feel like you're contributing in some way and that you have purpose, and I think for everybody at some point you're not sure you're doing it right, you're hitting the mark and you're like, there's no textbook in how to do this. And so, yeah, I think I've certainly been there. How did I get out of it? And I also don't want to minimize that. There's no, like I feel like I can't even answer that, and I shouldn't answer it in a simple way because it's so different for different people. And I, and sometimes it sounds euphemistic, but I will say that, you know, if you can truly get your brain to a grateful place, I think it's very tough to be both grateful and have feelings of toxicity at the same time. So, you know, to the extent that something as a salve for your mind in a time like this and please, I just want to repeat, I'm not, I don't want to minimize this question.
Kevin Hines:
Yeah.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta:
And I don't want to say, hey, just think happy thoughts and be grateful and everything will get better. It's not that easy. I know that personally and I know that because I have friends and I talked to some more people like you, Kevin, and I know it's not that easy. But I do think that for most people, there's a lot to be grateful for. And if it is possible to focus on those things, it can make a big difference being by yourself, being in nature. You know, I think can be helpful as well and seeking help. I mean, you know, I'm telling you, I'm being candid with you. No one's really ever asked me that before, Kevin, and I'm being candid with you. But I'm saying that I've had it happen to me. A lot of people have had it happen to them, and there's help out there. And when you go to the help, you will not be judged. You will not be stigmatized. Even though that's always been a concern around mental illness or depression or anxiety or just having dark thoughts. And what you're likely to find is somebody who's gone through it too, and maybe you can offer some help.
Kevin Hines:
Beautiful. All right. Shifting gears again, and I really mean shifting gears here for saying, I've seen your fancy sports car, how fast .... to driving ... on freeways?
Dr. Sanjay Gupta:
I drive like a grandma. It's not like, I, my car, I think the car you saw, that's a 2009. You know, it's like it doesn't. I can't even Bluetooth, you know, my kids are like, I can't. I get in, they get in the car, they say, can I aux? Like, that's the term. Do you familiar with that? The aux, they hit the aux on your music, so that they get auxiliary. So I want to aux, Dad. I'm like, my car doesn't aux. It's like, can we take mommy's car? So she's driving an SUV, a Ford SUV, and she's driving faster than I am in my.
Kevin Hines:
Oh, sure. Okay
Dr. Sanjay Gupta:
In my sports car. I'm a grandma. I'm risk-averse. If I take some chances, I cover wars. I go to cover Ebola hotspots. But like, I'm all about mitigating risk when you can, right?
Kevin Hines:
Okay, beautiful.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta:
I dig it up for risking my life while I go down in the latter freeway.
Kevin Hines:
Oh, that's fair enough. I hear you, well, you know, my wife and I, we loved your HBO documentary "One Nation Under stress."
Dr. Sanjay Gupta:
Thank you.
Kevin Hines:
And a lot of our clients are undergoing more stress now than ever before. We suggest several ways in combating stress, including following your five pillars of brain health from your book "Keep Sharp", what additional advice can you share in this new world of COVID and exacerbated stress?
Dr. Sanjay Gupta:
We're going to get through this, this COVID thing, and I think that that that feeling of collectiveness is really important at a time like this, you know, when I think about stress. You know, I was just saying a minute ago that it's sometimes important to just be in your own thoughts. But I think there's also a great value in connection as protection, especially at a time like this. We've long known the value of human connection. I mean, that's no surprise, there's been studies on monkeys and babies even and seeing the toxic effects of social isolation, but a time like this reminding that we are all in this together and that we are all going to get through this together and that if we do it right, we could be stronger together after this, I think, is, can be a laying of people's anxiety and stress to some extent. I think, you know, there's also a big societal sort of questions we need to be talking about. I mean, the United States is the only developed country in the world where life expectancy even before the pandemic was going down. It's hard to believe. Those are big societal sort of things. I mean, the idea that the health care systems don't care about individuals, you know how, like people feel isolated in that regard. Some of those have to be addressed as well. But I think for the majority of people out there, they think about this pandemic realizing that we, this is a still a really tough chapter, but we're going to get through it. I promise you that. It's come with tremendous costs and tremendous loss of life and all of that, but we will get through it and there is a chance that we could be better prepared and stronger for the next one.
Kevin Hines:
Very important to hear and important people to know that and feel better from it. Of your five pillars to better brain well-being, you and I share a favorite, connection. I think we are both social butterflies, but truly, our relationships matter most, and your friendship truly means the world to me. We've known each other for nearly 20 years, and I just want to say, Sanjay, I'm so grateful for you and thankful for your time today. Thank you. Dr. Sanjay Gupta for joining the HINESIGHTS podcast.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta:
Kevin. Thank you. Let me just say, Kevin, people may know this, but when I came to CNN, 2001, you were the first people I ever interviewed and I sought you out because I read your story and everyone who's listening obviously knows your story. I sought you out and I was so nervous to come meet with you and to speak with you. And it was I was very early in my career. First of all, I don't know if you remember what I was wearing, but I dressed ridiculously. I had no, no idea what to wear. I'd never done television before. I mean, they were scrubs and I had one sports coat and they said, wear a sweater. And I said, I don't think I have a nice sweater to wear for this San Francisco shoot. But you were kind to me and we, I don't know. I feel like we bonded there. And even then I remember, Kevin, I think we bonded more so when the cameras weren't rolling.
Kevin Hines:
Yes!
Dr. Sanjay Gupta:
When we were just chit-chatting and you took me to McDonald's, which I'll never forget, because at McDonald's, they had the, this was an unhealthy, one of probably your and my most unhealthy meal we ever had in our lives. But it was so good. I'll never forget this in my life. It was a pancake acting as a sandwich, a pancake sandwich.
Kevin Hines:
The big griddle!
Dr. Sanjay Gupta:
The griddle, yes! It's like, I mean, I remember thinking to myself, OK, we are doomed because this thing is so good.
Kevin Hines:
That was my favorite back in the day. It's my favorite.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta:
But look at you now, man! Now you're like lean mean fighting machine. So I adore you, Kevin. Thank you for all you do. And, you know, 20 years now longer than that even, you've been even pounding the pavement and keeping the message alive. And I think you helped so many people and probably saved so many lives. Kevin.
Kevin Hines:
Oh, Dr. Gupta, thank you very much. Sanjay. You're the best. Be well, be here tomorrow and every day after that, and I hope you have a great rest of your day.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta:
You, too. Best to your family. Talk to you soon.
Kevin Hines:
Okay, my friend.
Kevin Hines:
Margaret and I love sharing stories of people who have triumphed over incredible adversity. For more content and inspiration, go to KevinHinesStory.com or visit us on all social media at KevinHinesStory or on youtube.com/KevinHines.
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